1. Kira Thomas says:

    Goodness, that was a heavy read, but I’m so glad you spoke up, Ahsoka. And as always, thank you for facilitating the discussion and drawing our attention to it, Stephen.

  2. notleia says:

    Oh, I would’ve missed this if you hadn’t boosted it. Thanks.

    But while you can make addiction an ANALOGY for homosexuality, there’s no evidence for homosexuality for actually FUNCTIONING as an addiction, what with the electrical firings in your brainpan.

    But I think Christian subculture has a very skewed notion of what the definition of “addiction” is. From all the peeps who tout a sordid past with an “addiction to porn,” anytime they give specifics, it seems more like “porn addiction” = “I looked at porn more than once.” Like, you can use the words professionals do, but without knowing the wider context of the terms, you still look like you don’t know what you’re talking about.

    The other parts of her comment were mostly veiled commentary on buttstuff, but buttstuff is not actually required to be gay. Phallo-centricity is a fairly common pitfall, but you can do teh sechs without penetration. Gay girls can have lower STI rates than heteros, but I doubt anyone is going to take that as an excellent reason to be gay.

    • notleia says:

      Imma take this moment to go abstract about gayness. Ahsoka spent a lot of time on veiled language about buttsechs, and this made me ponder on the cultural baggage of sex, sexism, and penetration in particular.
      Is penetration inherently degrading? Traditionally yes, and I think that’s what certain clans of radfems are reacting to when they advocate boycotting hetero relationships or that junk about all hetero sex (ie, penetration) is rape.
      It dates back to the Romans, where the criteria for manliness was not whether they boinked exclusively women, but whether they were seme rather than uke.
      It’s probably a chicken-and-egg question, whether being penetrated is despised because it’s done to women, or whether women are despised because they’re “meant” to be penetrated.
      Are gay dudes considered despicable because they are feminine or because they are penetrated, or is that asking the same thing?
      But this is so very abstract that the answer is most likely “probably, kinda, but not entirely.”

  3. Original writer (paraphrased): People who claim to support “our movement” don’t actually know about the emotional and physical ways that people are hurting themselves, and when they find out, they don’t even seem to care.

    notleia: Well, actually(proceeds to repeat the same talking points and follow the exact lack of knowledge, or care, being criticized)

    • notleia says:

      Should I go find a gay person to repeat what I said? I’d feel bad about making them deal with basic concern troll crap.

      • notleia says:

        But I suppose I should congratulate you on learning the basic vocabulary of how to effectively debate liberals instead of whatever it is that Travis is attempting.


    • notleia says:

      Y’know what tho, I can also talk about the emotional hurts that gay people encounter, also.
      Most of them are caused by anti-gay attitudes in the first place, but I’m going to ignore that or this will prolly devolve.
      For those gays who decide to be celibate, that sucks hard, to feel doomed to be forever alone. Maybe they wanted a traditional bio-family and white picket fence (which is a defunct illusion for other, wage-stagnant reasons) and they’re mourning that happy picture that will never come to be. They share that in common with other infertile people.
      Theoretically the church is supposed to provider a bigger community and family, but in practice, big ol’ NOPE. It’s just as nuclear-family oriented as the wider culture. Perhaps even more so.
      (My solution for that would include communal living, but that’s another sidetrack.)
      But even just the forever alone feelings suck hard. We as a culture expect most emotional needs to be filled by a spouse, and that’s often an unrealistic expectation that leads to a lot of general suckiness.
      It can also be annoying and exhausting to deal with other people’s inability to comprehend why you aren’t just following the usual life script of marriage + kids. Al Mohler recently said some dumb sh*t about needing to have children to be fully human. He deserved every inch he got dragged on Twitter, but that’s the sort of background radiation they/we live in. Al Mohler did not spring fully formed from a vacuum.

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